Trying to decide which LEVER Harp to purchase?

[Biagio]

Interesting question Jerusha. Rationally speaking as a harp ages it improves – the old saw has it that “a harp sounds best just before it breaks” but with modern methods and glues I’m not sure that applies so much. I guess that would be a judgement call based mostly on the sound board condition, and the mechanics.

Then there is the collector factor – some harps are no longer being made but everyone wants those still out there. I’d almost hock my car to get my hands on a Caswell Gwydion!

Many people want a Clark; I restored one made in 1925 that I bought for $500 and then sold for $2,000; I’ve seen some that old in perfect condition sell for over $4,000 and others useful only for parts.

Definitely situations where one should look at an old harp in person.

Biagio

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Biagio.

[wil-weten]

I get the impression that the market for second hand harps from harpbuilders with a fine reputation is completely different than from industrially made harps.
It may also differ from where one lives. In the Netherlands, e.g. second hand harps tend to be significantly cheaper than in Germany.

By the way, when the Salvi Ana’s went from 38 to 40 strings, the last old models (perfectly new harps) went very nicely back in price in the US. The offer is still there (though I don’t know whether there are any old models left).
Have a look at: http://salviharpsinc.com/detail_harps_on_sale.pdf

[brook-boddie]

Hi Wil,

I was actually privileged enough to buy one of those on-sale Salvi Ana’s. They were brand new harps, just with the older Salvi levers, which I actually liked (though I’m in the minority). I eventually sold mine, but it was a great buying opportunity.

I currently have one of the newer model Ana’s I bought about a year ago. A Salvi rep told me they updated they soundboards and also updated the performance levers a bit. They also have hand-painted soundboard veneers. I’ve owned a lot of lever harps in my lifetime (Jerusha can tell you), but this is one of the best in terms of sound. It’s big, warm, and lush (if you like that sort of thing). Salvi is having trouble keeping them in stock, in fact, and there are supposedly none for sale in North America right now. They have pedal spacing/tension; perhaps the ones with lever tension are being sold in Europe. Anyway, I’d give it a 10/10 in terms of lever harps in that style (with pedal harp voicing). I also love the Troubadours and Preludes. They are great harps as well. This Ana just really speaks to me.

Jerusha, are you still playing that Dusty from so many years ago? Isn’t that a great instrument!!

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[Biagio]

Brook, it was the rich tone and big sustain that attracted me to the older Ana back when I was in the market. I really like those long bass strings, which you don’t see on many lever harps. It seems to me that lever harpers mostly prefer a smaller, lighter instrument, what do you all think?

Getting back to Jerusha’s question (and getting way off track): pricing an older harp to my mind becomes more like pricing a house than comparing current models. One should evaluate each on it’s own merits, there’s no handy formula as with a newer one. We all agree, I guess, that one should never buy a harp untested if at all possible!

Biagio

[Jerusha Amado]

Hi Brook,

Yes, I’m still with Gabriel. He’s awesome!! I’ll email you for an update.

Hi Biagio,

There are so many variables involved with pricing harps. I struggled with pricing my used Silhouette that I sold a few years ago. It was in excellent condition, but it was not a recent purchase. Perhaps another point to consider is what the market will bear. Looking at how other folks are pricing similar instruments can help to determine the reality of what we can ask.

[Biagio]

Ha ha, maybe we should start a new thread, on pricing!

It’s relatively easy for a newer harp model: add up the total manufacturing cost (including design time and several prototypes), add a reasonable profit margin. Then compare to similar competitors’. Older and one-of-a-kind…well, gets tricky and buyers can surprise you. Here’s a little anecdote:

Back when I lusted for the Salvi McFall (and the later Egan) I built a 34 string version. My interest has since changed to the wire strung, got tired of building or repairing and decided to get rid of the tools and some of the (at that time) five harps sitting around the tiny apartment.

Soooo…advertised the tool sale and included a picture of one of the wire strungs. Watta ya know? A newbie showed up – not interested in drill presses or band saws but in buying a harp, specifically the 34. “How much do you want for that?” Well I just threw out a figure off the top of my head – sold! It’s a nice instrument and I don’t feel guilty, but honest, the price was a spur of the moment number.

On the other hand, little 23 string doubles (46 total) have sat around for months, very reasonably priced, waiting for buyers to show up.

Huh!

Cheers,
Biagio

[brook-boddie]

Biagio,

I’ve always been a little surprised that Ana’s aren’t more popular here in the USA, although it seems like I’m hearing and seeing them more lately. Perhaps it’s because people buy them and tend to keep them because they’re such good harps. But I’m equally as enthralled with the L&H Troubs and Preludes. It’s just amazing the quality of lever harps being built these days. I’m a lever harp fanatic, in fact, and a couple others I own that I’m in love with are my Stoney End Marion and my Thormahlen Serenade. They are both very unique in their sound. I found an old Troub I this past summer that I got for a good price. It’s been updated with Loveland levers, which work so much better than those original plastic levers. The harp has a very rich, dark, warm sound that is hauntingly beautifully. However, among them all, the Ana is still my favorite.

[Jerusha Amado]

Yikes! I’m afraid that I ended up causing the pricing rabbit hole. My apologies to Gail!

[balfour-knight]

Gail, what did you ever decide? We all would love to hear from you.
Cheers,
Balfour

[hisassociatescoaching@gmail.com]

FEEDBACK/ EVALUATIONS on Following:
MARINI Lever Harp
SALVI (Livia or Ana)
CAMAC (Exalibur or other?
Lyon HEaly Troubadour

also thoughts on quality of Prelude (LH); I’ve been told not good.

Thanks so much

[jsmoir]

“….little 23 string doubles (46 total) have sat around for months, very reasonably priced, waiting for buyers to show up.”

Biagio- I don’t know you well, but your comments always enlighten. Are you a harp maker? Do you make Double Strung harps?
I’d like a URL please. More info!

[jsmoir]

And has ANYONE had any experience with the Salvi Hermes gut/silkgut?

I’d really like to know. I’m beginning to despair finding the right ‘folk/celtic’ harp, at the prices they seem to be going for. I’m more inclined to go with a known maker, and the ability to ‘test drive’ rather than just buy/commission sight/sound unseen…

[Biagio]

Hi JS,

I don’t make harps anymore – it was fun but alas I’ve downsized and do not have room for a workshop. Yes, I have made doubles, singles and wire strung harps, generally prototypes for myself and then “prettier” models for others.

It’s a familiar story – “crafty” people get interested in the folk harp (or dulcimer, banjo, fiddle, whatever) and make a few. Then the fever takes hold. Some, like yours truly mostly do it for fun, others like Ray Mooers (Dusty Strings) or Dave Thormahlen turn pro.

A smallish double is actually easier to make than a largish single because you don’t have to worry about torque on one string side. And if you use high density laminate for the sound board you often don’t have to beef that up much if at all. A custom made double will have a wider SB than a single but many makers don’t bother (they use the same jigs and fixtures for both).

If at all possible I think one should try out any harp to decide if it is right for you. On the other hand, as Harper Tasche says “Play the harp in front of you.”

If you are looking for an excellent reasonably priced harp (speaking of whom), consider Phil Boulding’s (Magical Strings) Concert Oladion/Oran Mor. This is the harp that Harper uses for his outdoor concerts and Phil for all of his. It has a high grade laminate board – less expensive than spruce – and uses the same strings as the Dusty FH36. Big resonant voice, and convenient size…I really like those Dusty bronze core nylon wound bass strings.

Looking for the perfect harp is a little like looking for the perfect house – there are plenty of good ones out there, all different!

Biagio

[jsmoir]

Gail- I know this is a year later (almost) but I have worked with a Troubadour (IV) as my ‘beginning harp,’ and recently tried out both Rees and Marini harps, visiting their ‘home/showroom.’ I’ve also played on a Stoney End, renting one for the summer, while waiting for my much-delayed pedal harp to finally arrive. So, from my (limited) perspective, let me give you my ‘gut’ reaction, to the three types of harps you mentioned in your post.

My observations (having only used nylon-strung harps, until @ 2 months ago, when I got a used pedal harp…) are based merely on a novice harpist’s tactile sensations, and my ear. But, as I am a singer, (and teach ear training at the college where I work) and have listened to harp recordings for years, I think I am being fair in my assessments…

My Troubadour was ‘firm’ in its ‘pluck’ but (model IV) was dull in the all-nylon version, though changing strings did liven things up a bit. The newer Troubs are all pedal nylon (1st/2nd), then pedal gut (3rd, 4th, half of 5th), I believe, so that will give a different sound. I cannot talk to the newer L&H instruments, and have not seen/played an Ogden, so cannot speak to that, either.

The Stoney End harp I rented initially was quite pleasurable- these harps are nicely constructed, and quite a bit of instrument…for the money. But you get what you pay for, as they say. (string chart here)
http://www.stoneyend (dot) com/_downloads/string-charts/StringChart_Marion.pdf

The model (Marion) I had used nylon in upper octaves- bright, clear and lovely resonance on the instrument I rented, but when it went down to the octave below middle C, and then the double-wound nylon in 5th octave, both my teacher and I found it sadly lacking – I said to him, “it was like playing rubber bands”- the lower octaves’ strings oscillation was so wide, (causing a lot of ‘buzzing’) – it made me feel I would NEVER learn to have a good hand position and attack – which magically ‘disappeared’ once I got my pedal harp, and started working with a normal spacing and gut ‘tension’…hmmm).

– As I started practicing 30-45 minutes a day, and built up some hand strength, the ‘pluck’ on the SE began to feel so light, that anything approaching pedal harp pull in playing louder music would cause the lower strings to ‘smack’ -and thus, necessitated playing with less than 1/4 the force on the bottom octaves. Then, in order to achieve anything like an equitable dynamic between LH and RH, that restriction then made the entire harp less ‘sound-worthy.’ I was confined to a ‘nice, safe mp’ most of the time. (I only knew what I was missing, when I went to another teacher later in the summer, and she had me play on her L&H 40 for my lessons, and it was like someone had turned on my ‘harp switch’- I ‘got’ what playing a REAL harp was like….).

After going to the AHS conference and seeing all sorts, ages, and types of pedal harpists play in large AND small rooms, I knew that a strong ‘pull’ to get some SOUND out of a harp is more normative, than the ‘plinking’ so many amateur harpists seem to give on their YT videos. Sure, you can get an amplifier built in, but folk harp (which is what I am looking for in a lever-style harp) is supposed to be an ACOUSTIC, not an electric rock-concert instrument. So, perhaps my harp paradigm is going against the tide… so be it. FWIW, I still feel amplification of a poor instrument, is a major cop-out, when compared or contrasted against quality of construction.

In late summer, I returned to school, and got a chance to visit both Rees and Marini shops. Rees harps are truly well-constructed, are visually appealing, and offer a lot of options (including double strung, as do the StoneyEnd folk), and RH are more willing to ‘tweak’ their harps for individual players- Garen at the shop suggested wire strings for the low A and G (above Low C), where they (also) habitually use double-nylon wrapped strings for a harp I was looking at- that would have solved my ‘rubber band’ problem with one of their models. The RH sound was also fuller,and a decided step up from the SE… but so was their pricing! RH’s of a comparable size/string count, are almost twice the cost of a comparable SE, esp. the double-strung.

[And now you are also up in the L&H/Salvi/Camac range of ‘folk’ harp, so it’s a case of comparing merely not apples to oranges, but Delmonico Sirloin to Ossobucco, Boeuf Bourgignon, and Angus beef!]

Marini harps are made by a dear couple whose initial calling has been to make instruments for many who are either homeschooling families, or for those who see music as a ministry. That is not to say that their harps are only for those buyers- hardly. Construction of these instruments is on a scale/par much like RH and MusicMaker’s (of MN.) Indeed, many of the patterns of Marini harps started out as MM kits,as he confided in me. But their lap, and other smaller harps are now their ‘niche’ market, and the larger harps (Regency model, for example) is almost identical to the discontinued MM variant.

As far as sound, the Marini’s are fairly evenly balanced, with only a slight ‘tubbiness’ in the larger models, that some might find desirable. But the lack of a concert gut/pedal gut option on all of these types of ‘folk/lever’ harps, means disappointment, if you are looking for that ‘warm’ sound you only get with a pedal harp. Or you don’t like playing rubber bands….

However, one side note about Marinis- whereas Rees Harps show you the complete price with Levers, Marini offers lever combos as ‘options’- which, for some, is a good deal. For me, the cost differential was non-existent, once a full set of levers was added on to the base model.

Thus, Lever Harps seem to hover (for the vast majority of makers- whether corporate or individual) in the $4000-6000 dollar range these days. Which is a lot of catgut…

[This review does not touch on the custom-made harp makers out there- Thormahlens, Norris, Mountain Glen, Kemper, etc. They are in a class of their own, but they are (or can be, once you decide on all the ‘goodies’ you want) also even more costly, and one will have to think long and hard about paying close to the cost of a good used pedal harp, before deciding on one of those beauties!

So, apart from the StoneyEnd harps – and some of the Rees/Harpsicle configurations, most harp manufacturers these days are checking their competitor’s prices, and charging accordingly- which doesn’t tend to the buyer’s benefit, to be honest. And hearing much the ‘same old, same old’ sound paradigm from one vendor of harp to another, (coupled with a subtle dig with more than one folk manufacturer’s printed materials inveighing against pedal harpists; by insinuating they are ‘snobs’ in stating pedal tension is the norm, in order to lull prospective harp sales of all nylon-strung instruments!? Well, umm, yea, it is!) makes the choice of purchasing any Lever Harp either totally subjective; (I really like xxxx model, or I want XXXX brand, because “so and so” has one) or instead, a long, agonizing soul-searching process, especially when you cannot HEAR many of these harps in person, because they either are: a)located in remote, out of the way locations, or b) don’t ship to other vendors.

Which exercise in frustration, is no fun for anyone.

Perhaps there is an unwritten rule among harpists that one shouldn’t have strong opinions (as it isn’t ‘nice,’) but in this case, having a “caveat emptor” attitude about the purchase of an instrument with so many possible variables (unlike, say, violin) at a cost of some thousands of dollars, is foundational to one’s harping happiness. Them’s my 2 cents. Hope that helps.

[jsmoir]

Right, Biagio- but, (continuing with the house analogy) having been a Realtor once upon a time for a while -between Grad school and DMA work -when the right house appears, the buyer KNOWS it!

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