Professional Ethics of What to Charge

[kathleen-hartshorne]

David, I got a kick out of your post!!! Yes, how many of us have heard the old phrase: “play for me and you’ll get exposure!” People die of exposure!!

In San Diego, we used to have a folk harp society that would compare rates that we charge. I had a teacher who told me to be professional from the start. She said get professional sound equipment because you will eventually need it so why not start with it. She taught me to charge full price from the beginning. I was VERY embarrassed at first to do that, but I found that people didn’t know the difference between the days I was brilliant vrs. the days I was “off”.

I’ve been a professional musician (vocalists/pianist) since my childhood, and majored in music (voice/piano). However, I discovered the harp relatively late in life (18 years ago.) So I went through all the “beginner” trauma that folks talk about in this post. However, I feel that many of us (myself included) do this to earn a living. We have spent years in musical studies, paid a small fortune for our instruments, and go through quite a bit just to show up for a gig. (did anyone ever wish they had taken up the penny whistle on a cold rainy night when you’re slogging through wet and rain to move your harp and all your equipment into a venue?)

That said I proudly charge my full fees and know that if someone feels it’s too high, they will not hire me. Which is fine. They will hire someone else for less who will drive the market down for the rest of us. But at least I will not sell myself out for less than the worth of everything I offer as a musician.

We seem to have two groups in San Diego. One group earns their living otherwise and just plays for fun and charges minimal rates. The other group are doing this as their profession and charge professional rates. We just live together peacefully. It is frustrating because since the economic drop off in 2007, the middle class is gone. All those wonderful parties we used to play, at full rate where they’d give huge tips at the end as well, are gone and we are all left playing in a market where people are looking for a bargain.

But I figure I’m still with a roof over my head and food on the table and I get to do for my living what I live and breathe and love…. so life is good!!

[AndreaZ04]

I am a High School student in the Midwest. My first “gig” I did for free. It 45 minutes at a retired teachers breakfast during the meet and greet. PERFECT for a first timer! I was then asked to perform at a church function for $75/1 hour (the dinner was later canceled).

Recently I was asked if I was available to play during a cocktail hour for a Rotary Club dinner. There was no discussing rates,I was told they would pay $200. Being new I felt this may be a bit steep. Being a family friend who wished to hire me, I explained to him what I had previously been paid. In a very kind voice he said, “I know your talent and I didn’t ask what you charge for a reason. I’m prepared to pay you what I’ve offered so give me an hour and $200 worth of beautiful music. And never question the $$ unless it’s below what your worth”

Confidence booster, life lesson or both.

[carl-swanson]

Kathleen-Do the group in your area who earn their living elsewhere have any idea of the damage that they are doing 1) to the professionals who HAVE to earn their living playing the harp, and 2) to the going rates in the area? When someone plays a job for much less than anyone else, word gets around and everyone expects that as the standard fee. If these people want to do this for fun, then they should be playing for free. There are plenty of places where they would be welcomed for free and would not be hurting the professional musical community. But again, if they are going to play for money, then it should be at the same rate as the professionals.

Please show these people this thread. Tell them that if they don’t need the money, play for the standard professional fee and give the money to charity. But whether it is intentional or not, these people are undercutting you.

[kathleen-hartshorne]

Yes they are, Carl, and as I intimated, it makes it hard to charge full price. The politics of fitting into an Irish community is complex and generally we find kindly ways to bring the point around. The ones who would read this post already charge full rates. The others would not care what I think. The people who would hire me can go to my web site and hear my sound samples. I’m not ashamed to hold the line for full price. I actually had one very rich person who went ballistic because he wanted me for his wife’s birthday party. I held my ground and one hour before the party he finally relinquished and agreed to full price. We used to have a society here that helped people set prices but no one wanted to lead so it fell by the wayside. Usually the society can compare prices and give people assistance in knowing what to charge.

[Sylvia]

As for people not being able to tell…I had some people come for a consult several years ago. The lady mentioned that they had had a consult with another harpist whose playing she described as “basic.” I thought she was very tactful to say that. (I didn’t say anything.) In other words, they didn’t think her playing was as experienced or skillful as what they were looking for. They were not musicians, but they could tell.

As I said before, you have to get out there to get the experience. It doesn’t matter how good your Ave Maria is in your living room…it has to be beautiful in an entirely different setting….when the bride takes those flowers to the Virgin. The Communion music must hold together while everyone is walking around and end gracefully at the appropriate time. You can’t do those things at home. You have to be playing in the church.

[Candace Lark-Masucci]

I have to agree with you Sylvia
Many people return to me when hiring someone at a lower cost. Most people nowadays will research you.
I have students that perform but are upfront about their level of flexibility and limited services and they charge less. I encourage advanced students to charge the same that I do.

[Andelin]

Carl,

I am curious, do you feel the same about teaching lessons? Should a new teacher charge the same rates an experienced teacher charges? (Others may chime in on this as well.)

[carl-swanson]

Andelin-That’s a curious question! I hadn’t thought about it. But my first reaction is that you’re comparing apples and oranges. Teachers are dealing with a different and much more knowledgable clientele, and they are dealing with a client(the student) over a much longer period of time. If the teacher’s hourly fee is say $50, the student has to think in terms of that as a weekly cost, not a one off charge like a wedding gig. And there is a level of fame with certain teachers. So a well known orchestra harpist or conservatory teacher is going to charge much more for lessons than your average teacher.

As I said in a previous post, it’s not a question of making everyone charge the same thing. It’s a matter of setting minimums below which no one will go. Any freelance harpist is free to charge as much as they want according to what the market will bear. But there is a minimum charge below which the harpist is loosing money. That’s the only thing that I am really adamant about. That it is unfair to the larger community of working harpists to have one or more harpists charging fees that are too low to cover expenses.

[Biagio]

There has been a series of articles in the Folk Harp Journal by Ann Ros that address many of these issues, essentially in line with Carl’s and others comments. Ann goes into more depth of course – it might be other while to get her book, of which the articles are extracts: A Musician’s Guide to Brides: How to Make Money Playing at Weddings.

Biagio

[Sylvia]

I’m not where there is a musicians’ union, but I got to wondering if anyone else is in the union, and how does that affect prices.

[Tacye]

I want to be on both sides of this!

I don’t like the theory that many people hiring harpists don’t know quality when they hear it. Most people are pretty used to the idea you get what you pay for, and if they want to hire someone to play glisses on a rosewood harp shaped object that is their privilege – and the right of someone else to try to make a living that way. If someone hiring truly doesn’t know or care about the quality of the playing, why should they have to have the equivalent of Cordon Bleu rather than the Greasy Spoon?

On the other hand, we all benefit from being in a world where professional harpists can make a living in music. These are also the people who are publishing music, making recordings, teaching students who will buy music and recordings and increasing the number of people who know and appreciate harp music. If more harpists had to give up and get a day job we would all be the poorer. If a player is buying experience with a low fee it is in their own interests to think about the wider effects, and in the interests of teachers to guide students in professionalism and starting to play for pay or teach as well as technique and musicality.

[Sylvia]

I think Tayce has a point, being on both sides. The reason I asked about anyone being in a musician’s union is that maybe the union sets the fee. However, in some industries, it is known as price-fixing.

price-fix·ing
noun
the maintaining of prices at a certain level by agreement between competing sellers.

[Victoria]

While we’re in the topic, I just got a sort of weird experience.

Last night I got a call from someone needing a harpist for background music at a 2 hour dinner. I told them that while I am a harp student, I have never played in such events before and so am not confident to do it on such a short notice (plus I only have classical repertoire, which I figure will not do for a dinner)…and they said, they don’t care about my playing at all! They just want a harpist who can play a few simple tunes, as long as they look “pretty”.

I turned them down and just now I found out that they hired another harpist, who I know have only had like a dozen lessons, for $1000 (she is a professional catwalk model who plays harp occassionaly). So there you go, some clients really do not care about quality, but they are not afraid to pay a large amount of money for some glamorous action.

[carl-swanson]

Sylvia,

In the link below, which was put on the other thread(Wedding gig rates…) by Tacye, the prices mentioned are called “minimums.” That’s exactly what I have been advocating all along. Minimums.

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Casual-Orchestral-Concert-Rates-Non-ABO-2014-2015.pdf

Price fixing is when everyone in an industry agree to charge exactly the same price for exactly the same product or service, and yes, that is illegal.

“Dumping” is selling a product or service, usually in a foreign country from the source of the product, at a lower price than it is sold in the country of origin, or is sold below cost. And that too is illegal.

A musician’s union, like the one whose link appear above, do not “fix” prices, but rather set “minimums.”

Anyone who is charging money for playing an instrument should be setting their prices as if that is their sole source of income, even if they have a trust fund or a husband or wife who pays most of the bills.

[Sylvia]

Victoria,
The harp IS pretty, and that may be a prime attraction. I once asked if any male harpists played bridal showers, and none had. That is a place where a girl in a pretty dress with a pretty harp is a high priority. No one would hire a pianist because the piano looks pretty. This is just reality.

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