Double-strung harp saga

[mae-mcallister]

I have literally no idea how you add photos to posts. Until I am enlightened:

This is the harp kit! There’s the neck, pillar, soundboard, soundbox back, sides, corners, top and bottom, as well as 44 eyelets, bridge pins, zither pins (!! For tuning a double harp!), full set of strings and set of spares, screws and bits and bobs and strap and fairly good instructions. The wood (walnut) is fairly rough, you are supposed to do all the sanding and varnishing and so on. I am not worried about this, my friend Tim the luthier did his entire degree pretty much on how you make wood look nice.
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/09/20140926_193030-800×600.jpg

This is a closer look at the neck, where you can see the space for the medallion with the serial number (which was the only thing missing from the kit!)
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/09/20140926_193107-800×600.jpg

This is the soundboard which is made of plywood, as can be expected from a harp this cheap. Note the 2 holes drilled for each note, it’s a double harp!
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/09/20140926_193118-800×600.jpg

This is their trademark heart cut out from the top, and it’s totally wonky! This is so far the only thing I have been really unimpressed with.
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/09/20140926_193050-e1412084458124-800×600.jpg

And the case, which is the cheaper case they offered, is actually really nice:)
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/09/20140926_193019-800×600.jpg

Also a “how to play the harp” book, which I shall be selling on with my first harp:)

Hoped that whet your appetite, more to follow on building day #1.

[Allison Stevick]

This is so exciting! More! More!

[wil-weten]

Hi Mae,

Thanks for showing us the photo’s. The wood looks great! I am looking forward for the next pictures.

As the medaillion was missing, and worse, the soundboard’s cut out heart is way out of the middle, I think something may have gone wrong with the quality control of this harp kit.

Have you contacted Stoney End for a free replacement of these parts or for a partial return of the money you paid for this kit?

I have been thinking of ordering a harp from this manufacturer, so I am interested in the way problems are dealt with.

[mae-mcallister]

:S

I emailed Stoney End 2 weeks ago and have had no reply re: the medallion. I’m sure if I emailed them again they’d get onto it, they have a ton of emails going through everyday so it probably just got mislaid. They did say if I had any questions regarding the building of the kit I was to email, so I’ll get round to it again at some point but since it’s the last thing it’s not urgent.

Re: the heart – I think that it was just sloppy but since a) it’s not crucial to the actual structure and sound of the harp and b) I think we can fix it, I might not say anything for now. Tim is coming round tonight and we shall have a proper look and he might be able to do something about it. I can’t see that Stoney End can really do anything but apologise and sending over another one would be pointless and unpractical since I am on the other side of the world. If it was something actually important, I’d fuss, but pending an actual defect I think I’m going to tactically not fuss just in case I need to fuss later.

Harp building commences this week…:)

[Tacye]

The lack of medallion may be deliberate as there can be an issue with kit built instruments and the maker not wanting the reputation of their own instruments to be affected by a poorly finished kit. They could of course engrave a medallion with ‘kit’ instead of the serial number, but that is about all there is room for on them. If it were mine I would be more interested in making a personal one than using theirs anyway.

[mae-mcallister]

Well, it explicitly said “there should be a medallion” in the instructions otherwise I’d be inclined to agree:) I did consider making my own but decided against it, it is their design after all. I emailed them again telling them that I’d rather make my own than have a big hole in the side of my harp and they had the medallion in the post in a matter of hours hehe:)

Pictures to follow on Monday I hope.

[mae-mcallister]

AS PROMISED! The soundbox is all glued up:)

So far so good…
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1622131-800×600.jpg

Tim fixed the wonky heart.
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1622241-800×600.jpg

AND smoothed out the soundhole.
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1622391-800×600.jpg

This is not Ikea flat pack quality harp. There are gaps, which Tim is filling in with pieces of the wedges that they sent to support the soundbox, now no longer needed but conveniently made of the same wood. I can’t remember what he called them, they have a technical name…
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1622521-800×600.jpg

On of those little bits of wood is visible in the further corner from the camera…
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1625311-800×600.jpg

And this is what it’ll look like which the neck and pillar are added…
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1624511-800×600.jpg

The base has an awesome grain.
http://www.harpcolumn.com/wp-content/uploads/rtMedia/users/5139/2014/10/20141020_1631191-800×600.jpg

Experiences so far – if you don’t already know how to work with instruments, wood and so on, Do Not Try This At Home (unless you are accepting on the fact that it might look a little shoddy). My father built all the wooden furniture in my bedroom when I was a child and worked with his father building roofs in his teens and he took one look at it and was like “no way could I do this”. On the plus side, there are lots of nice instrument makers around who might do it for you. Or, if you actually live in the USA, just get them to do it in the shop.

[wil-weten]

Hi Mae,

Wow, what a nice pictures. They convinced me though that building from a kit is not my cup of tea. But wow, do I love the wood of your harp! And Tim found a really nice solution for the skewed heart shaped hole.

I am hoping for more pictures, and, of course, when the harp is ready, a link to a sound clip.

I do hope, your downtuning plan works out fine!

[Biagio]

Mae, I commented a bit more on the Camac Bardic thread but it occurs to me that I left out a couple of things that might also be helpful….

If you keep those zither pegs they will not work for a string diameter great that 0.045 (standard) nor for over about 0.070 even if you substitute some with enlarged holes.

Over on the Bardic thread I suggested that I personally would find a KF180 for that low C too floppy and would use SFN. Here’s what I came up with:

Steel 0.018″ 12 fibers for bedding, 0.20 nylon wrap. The relevant numbers are:

Diameter 0.81 tension 24lbs %T36.6 T/L 0.97

No problem with Z pins since the wrap and bedding should not go through the Peg hole, just the steel core.

I just looked at that one string, but of course one would have to think through the rest as well….

Biagio

[Biagio]

Mae, I ought to add that I think it’s GREAT that you are doing this! You will be making this harp truly your own. Here’s one more thought….

If you will send me Gary’s string chart for the G-G version I’ll see what I can come up with for C-C that will be within tension and tone tolerances. I’ll need the vibrating lengths and diameters for the G-G version. I’ll also need to know also whether or not you would be OK with a few wound metal strings in the bass (they’d be steel fiber bronze) and whether you have access to nylon over there (for the treble and upper mid ranges).

Guess it’s too late to also mention that Dwight Blevins makes a double 23 and has a distributor in the Netherlands (De Troubadour Harpen) – just took a look though, and alas they only have his single (the Cameo 23).

Biagio

[wil-weten]

As to the Dutch shop, I happen to know that they are willing to order any Blevins harp. One can communicate oneself with Blevins about the special wishes (like the kind of wood and/or levers). The shop takes care of the ordering from the States and one pays to the Dutch shop, I believe. The point, of course, it that one would buy a harp one could not try out before.

[mae-mcallister]

Biagio – you are AMAZING!!! I will definitely send you the info (soon), and I am going to re-run all my calcs with the new info I got, and we can compare and you can let me know if my numbers are sensible or if you think they are going to be too floppy.

I have lots of nylon strings (they got sent with the harp for the G-G stringing version) and I’d like to use as many of them as possible. I’d rather not have any wound strings on my harp, on a small harp they’d be a massive faff (you can’t shorten them because they come pre-looped and pre-top bit-attached…) so the idea is to use KF where I can’t use nylon because it would be too thick, i.e. on the bottom four strings. KF is thinner than nylon for the same tension so zither pins should be fine I think, but once I get round to sending you the numbers let me know what you think.

Did some artwork for the soundboard today…excited:)

[Biagio]

Sounds like a plan Mae, I love it when musicians really get into their instruments!

[mae-mcallister]

Hey, so…

I’ve been messing around with numbers and looking into options…as well as easy access to Nylon, gut and KF, I have choice out of the following materials for wound strings from Salopian: Nylon Multi-Fibre Core/Copper Wrap, or Steel core/Nylon Multi-Fibre bedding/Copper wrap. I’m inclined to go for the latter, I have silk core strings on my first floor harp and I couldn’t stand them, they sounded dull were weird and twisty. Plus, steel core will make the strings thinner, much thinner, and that makes everything a lot easier. I already have a large bunch of nylon strings that came with the kit, so obviously I’d like to use as many of them as possible.

There is a BUT…which is that I can’t really afford or justify spending a huge amount extra on strings (given that the nylon strings with which the harp is supposed to be strung came with the kit) and the problem with wound strings is that each one costs about £7, regardless of length, so I’d need two for every note. If I got KF strings however, I could by one of each and that would serve well enough for both strings each side of the harp.

SO, my compromise is that I am willing to go down to the E/Eb or D rather than the C if it proves too expensive, but no higher than E/Eb.

Biagio, if you are willing, could you work out what you think would be good for an Eb, D and C version, given the use of SFC and Nylon with a preference for KF over SFC but not over nylon? I’m going to have a play but since wound strings make everything a little complicated if you have a program set up that might be really good.

The numbers are (I’ve put them here for anyone interested, I know exactly how much of an ass it is to gt hold of them…!):

From 1G to 4G the lengths (in cm!):
15
16
18
19
20
21
23
24
26
28
30
32
34
36
38
41
44
47
50
54
58
61

And the nylon gauges for the same in mil (i.e 60mil=0.060 inches):
25
25
25
28
32
32
32
32
36
36
40
40
40
45
45
50
50
50
55
55
60
60

For those of you looking for pretty pictures and are totally bored of all this string chat, there are some photos in the pipeline that I should have soon!! Tim took them on his phone but he is a bit of a dinosaur at heart so I haven’t got them yet:) By the end of today the whole thing should be glued up, and then the endless sanding begins…

[Biagio]

Hi Mae,

I’m happy to take a gander at these options but first a question: would you consider a US source for the wound strings? I’m sure you realize after all that number crunching you are going to end up with some wound strings. IMHO copper over fiber bed steel will sound yucko – nylon wrap would be vastly preferable. You can order those from Vermont Strings as one of my Italian friends does. For now, here’s what I come up with for C-C tuning; you read this as core gauge, core material, #bedding fibers, wrap material, wrap gauge:

0.032 Nylon
0.032 Nylon
0.032 Nylon
0.032 Nylon
0.032 Nylon
0.032 Nylon
0.036 Nylon
0.040 Nylon
0.032 0.84 Carbon
0.032 0.91 Carbon
0.032 Nylon Nylon 0.01
0.036 Nylon Nylon 0.01
0.036 Nylon Nylon 0.01
0.036 Nylon Nylon 0.013
0.040 Nylon Nylon 0.013
0.040 Nylon Nylon 0.013
0.016 Steel 10 Nylon 0.01
0.018 Steel 10 Nylon 0.013
0.018 Steel 10 Nylon 0.015
0.018 Steel 10 Nylon 0.015
0.018 Steel 10 Nylon 0.015
0.018 Steel 12 Nylon 0.015

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